[The Queensland Oil Vulnerability Taskforce released a report in October titled "Queensland's Vulnerability to Rising Oil Prices," which rapidly became known as the McNamara report. Read an article about the report or the report itself.

This is an abridged version of the interview transcript. The full interview can be found in audio format on the GPM site. -Ed.]

Andi Hazelwood: What can you tell me about this brand-new position? Did it actually come with a set of guidelines on what's expected of you?

McNamara: : Yes, and I guess the best thing is that the Premier Anna Bligh has asked me to think big and to think long-term. This change of name from the Department of Environment to Sustainability, Climate Change, and Innovation is much more than cosmetic. We are looking to the government that really takes the old idea of looking after the environment and puts it in the long-term context of sustainability and I really couldn't be happier with the job that the Premier has asked me to do. It's, I think, the most important job in the world, and it's going to be a great challenge, but one I'm really looking forward to.

AH: Well, and given that sustainability and climate change have become such trendy issues, especially in the last twelve months, it's really good to hear that it's not just a cosmetic name change.

McNamara: : Not at all, no, there are a very great number of changes that have gone with the name change. The old Department of Environment budget has more than doubled and we have accumulated a range of programs and spending initiatives that were spread across a number of other departments in the previous structure of government, which I think do belong under one roof. So money for innovative science to address climate change and sustainability has come over from our old Department of State Development. The Climate Change Center of Excellence, which was in the Department of Natural Resources, is now under my roof. There are a range of other areas of government which will be centralized in this portfolio, which makes a lot of sense in terms of getting the best bang for our buck, but also making sure we've got the people with the expertise and the scientific knowledge, in particular, who can work together and develop a range of policies from the very local to the quite global to address these issues.

AH: Now let's go back a little bit. You were actually Parliamentary Secretary for Main Roads for a year. How will that experience inform what you do going forward?

McNamara: : Well, there were some really good things about it, of course, in terms of straight out training to be a minister. On a very personal level, learning to work with the Queensland Government Agency and learning those processes, I hope will make me more effective in the job of Minister. But, again, the Roads portfolio, I saw it very much as part of the network of infrastructure and those portfolios that are still going to be a battle going forward in an oil constrained world. Roads, in my view though it's not my portfolio any more, will have to be seen as part of a transport network, seen as a perspectively open space which is shared by cars and public transport, push bikes and pedestrians, to get the best possible mix of use and linkages. I hope this will have some input in that area in terms of developing policy for sustainability at my first Cabinet meeting on Monday. The peak oil task force report, which I'd shared, was considered and I've been asked by the Cabinet to take--for my department to have the lead agency role in coordinating a whole of government response for dealing with peak oil. Obviously I will be working closely with a range of other ministers to bring in all of those areas where we can do little things and do big things to make our transition to this carbon constrained world a little smoother.

AH: I want to get into the--what's now being called the McNamara report in a couple of minutes, but on that topic, I guess, with so much priority today being given to accommodating growth and expansion, it sounds like this new role is going to involve a lot of inter-departmental compromise on your part.

McNamara: : Well, I think there's obviously a need to work closely where a government that is going to try and do its very best for the people of Queensland, while recognizing that we're working within some constraints to growth that are going to get tougher. I see my role as not so much compromising, but being part of a team that sees the world as it is, sees the future, and starts to deal with it. That hasn't been the way, and I think we may have discussed this before, that in the period since second world war, politics has been fairly easy and that there's been no concept of limits to growth and politicians have been able to say 'vote for me and you can have more of it', and generally that was true. I think we are now entering a different period, and I think that across all parts of government; the perception that we need to plan much, much better, and to make sure that we are not in a position where we are quite so car-dependent is very much being recognized. But, again, the Premier has appointed me Deputy Premier as the ministers are planning elevating that portfolio to very high ranks in the government, so there's, I think, unanimity of purpose and an understanding that the challenges we face are not just about managing growth, but managing decline in inputs in some resources. I think it's an exciting time for me, personally, because I have been banging on about these things for a while, but it isn't necessarily all bad for everyone else out there as well if we think about it and marshal our resources and make smart decisions.

AH: The news is currently chock-a-block with stories of crippling drought and impending stagflation and the U.S. credit and mortgage crisis, which is now leading into the world market. These are all sustainability issues that are related to, or in some cases, even caused by climate change and peak oil. How do you prioritize these huge issues you're dealing with?

McNamara: : I think you've got to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time. There are a range of issues that will have great demands on my time, but my department has some two and a half thousand employees who are very skillful and dedicated people, so it's not just a matter of it's up to me. There's an awful lot of help out there, and I intend to draw on it very heavily.

AH: That's good to hear. Tell me about the innovation portion of your new title. That almost sounds like you've been told, 'find a techno-fix.'

McNamara: : Well I don't know that there's a simple techno-fix, but there are some aspects of technology that can certainly help and obviously we're not going to turn our backs on technological advances that can lead to more efficient energy outcome. We are very keen to work particularly with the university sector, in partnering them in doing research and, for example, one of the things that is going on at the moment is that we are working with scientists from the University of Queensland to establish a Geothermal Research Center of Excellence. That, for Queensland, is very much a real option for generating electricity in a way that isn't going to produce the same sorts of carbon emissions that we get from coal-fired power. It also represents a move to localizing power supplies, which is a very, very important aspect of getting better efficiency and less loss from transmitting power over vast distances. Everything that we can do that can generate electricity, in particular from sources that don't use carbon, is something I'll certainly be pursuing very, very vigorously and that's an area where innovation fun and that aspect of the portfolio will be very important.

AH: Now let's talk about the oil vulnerability report. Based on the coverage in this weekend's Courier Mail, it sounds like it pulls no punches.

McNamara: : I was very proud to put my name to it, as the chair of the report. ... At the end of the day, as I say I'm proud of it, it's still a starting point. It's, I think, still the first provincial government report into peak oil anywhere in the world. It's a compilation of efforts across a number of departments and I think it's a useful starting point for discussion here in Australia about what is the likely date of peak oil, and what are are the impacts going to be and what are the potential alternatives - renewable and non-conventional and that sort of thing. But at the end of the day, yeah, it doesn't pull any punches. It says that we're going to have to reduce energy use, and that's the hard part that we're going to have to simply be much more efficient and frugal with all energy, and particularly hydro-carbons, than we have been. The report doesn't sugar-coat it. It doesn't say that there's any simple, business-as-usual, model. It doesn't say that alternatives like ethanol or hydrogen are somehow just going to step in, seamlessly fill the gap. They aren't. The report makes that very clear.

AH: You've mentioned that we need to adopt a war-time mentality to oil use. That sounds like conservation and rationing. How do you sell those concepts to the public?

McNamara: : I think, first off, you have the conversation, and these concepts have been sold to the public previously, in war-time. I gave a lecture recently at the University of Technology to fourteen hundred students in the build, environment, and engineering faculty and it was about sustainability... I put out a series of thoughts over an hour on where I thought sustainability and government were going. One of the powerpoints that I had was a thing that said 'the last time sustainability mattered,' and underneath was a poster from the second world war in relation to petrol and other rationing initiatives that were going on, and my point was that sustainability means for the long term. When you don't know how long you have to make something last, then you have to assume that it's a long time, at least a hundred years, four generations. The thing about the second world war was no one knew how long it was going to go on for; therefore you had to operate in a way that was sustainable. And we, after the second world war, stopped thinking that we had to operate in a way that was sustainable, because we were in a different set of political and economic circumstances. I think that once people understand the challenges in front of us, that they will understand that sustainability is not an option, it's not a take-it-or-leave it kind of thing. You have to operate in a way that leaves yourself and the next generation and the one after that the ability to function, and using oil, and to a degree coal, in ways that we are, just doesn't meet those criteria.

AH: Speaking of coal, in recent months in Parliament, you spoke at about clean-coal technology and a global emissions trading regime for the aviation industry. What other mitigations do you want for Queensland and Australia?

McNamara: : There are many, and I guess that's the job I've been given by the Cabinet, is to pull together a significant range of mitigations and options for other uses or different ways of using energy that are more efficient. ... in terms of very very specific recommendations, the most important thing was, put everything on the table. ... My perspective to this is that if we put our thinking-caps on, we can do a range of things quickly that are not so hard. A number of things will take more time, which will be harder, but I don't want to prejudge it by saying, 'here's the answers,' because, again, I need to take a lot of people with me and appearing to suggest that you've got it all covered is probably the wrong way to go.

AH: Now, I have to take you to task a little bit on one issue. When we spoke in April last year you said you would differ with people who oppose nuclear energy. Your speeches in Parliament of late have actually seemed to have changed tone on that.

McNamara: : Yeah, and I know I've been public about this, but I have this terrible habit of saying what I think, which will, of course, get you into trouble if I change my thinking. I'm, again, I'm on the public record of saying nuclear energy won't work in Australia, that there's simply a range of very practical reasons why. ... I honestly don't believe that the nuclear industry will ever fly in Australia, and I think it's a distraction from the main game, and it's unhelpful; but apart from anything else, I guess that my message always has been that we don't really face an energy crisis, we face a liquid fuel crisis. In the current circumstance, producing very expensive electricity via nuclear power doesn't help to address that at all.

AH: Now we've talked a lot about your government efforts towards sustainability and what you'll be planning for the future, but do you also see a place for community initiated efforts?

McNamara: : Oh absolutely, there's no question whatsoever that community-driven, local solutions, will be essential. That's where government will certainly have a role to play in assisting and encouraging local networks who can assist with some local supplies of food and fuel and water and jobs and the things we need from shops. It was one of my contentions in the first speech I made on this issue of February of 2005, which seems like a lifetime ago, that we will see a relocalization of the way in which we live that will remind us of not last century, but the one before that. And that's not a bad thing. Undoubtedly one of the cheaper responses that will be very effective is promoting local consumption, local productions, local distribution, and there are positive spin-offs to that in terms of getting to know our communities better. There are human and community benefits from local networks that I look forward to seeing grow.